Bird Does Mozart
Moderators: bobappleton, sandywilliams
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An open letter from Alice Russell. June 21, 2011, Brookline, Massachusetts. 1. DO NOT make insulting, mean spirited remarks about anyone or their work; there are a plethora of sites where you can rant unfettered. If you attack someone personally, your comments will be removed. You can post it, but I'm not paying for it. Go elsewhere, and let those artists who are actually interested in discussion and learning have the floor. 2. There will be NO posting of or links to copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner. That's the law. And if you respect the work of people who make meaningful contributions, you should have no problem following this policy. 3. I appreciate many of the postings from so many of you. Please don't feel you have to spend your time "defending" the LCC to those who come here with the express purpose of disproving it. George worked for decades to disprove it himself; if you know his music, there's no question that it has gravity. And a final word: George was famous for his refusal to lower his standards in all areas of his life, no matter the cost. He twice refused concerts of his music at Lincoln Center Jazz because of their early position on what was authentically jazz. So save any speculation about the level of him as an artist and a man. The quotes on our websites were not written by George; they were written by critics/writers/scholars/fans over many years. Sincerely, Alice
An open letter from Alice Russell. June 21, 2011, Brookline, Massachusetts. 1. DO NOT make insulting, mean spirited remarks about anyone or their work; there are a plethora of sites where you can rant unfettered. If you attack someone personally, your comments will be removed. You can post it, but I'm not paying for it. Go elsewhere, and let those artists who are actually interested in discussion and learning have the floor. 2. There will be NO posting of or links to copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner. That's the law. And if you respect the work of people who make meaningful contributions, you should have no problem following this policy. 3. I appreciate many of the postings from so many of you. Please don't feel you have to spend your time "defending" the LCC to those who come here with the express purpose of disproving it. George worked for decades to disprove it himself; if you know his music, there's no question that it has gravity. And a final word: George was famous for his refusal to lower his standards in all areas of his life, no matter the cost. He twice refused concerts of his music at Lincoln Center Jazz because of their early position on what was authentically jazz. So save any speculation about the level of him as an artist and a man. The quotes on our websites were not written by George; they were written by critics/writers/scholars/fans over many years. Sincerely, Alice
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sandywilliams
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:17 pm
I also am not sure if I get what related intervals you are referring to. I get the Hidemith thing with one tone in an interval being the tonic, but when I read your description of which notes, I am confused.
The notes on the first beat are clear enough, the intervals you give for the second beat seem different than what I read in the score. I probably just think you mean something different (melodic intervals).
See the attachment to see what I mean, and you'll be better able to set me straight.........
http://www.4shared.com/file/74279522/f7 ... d=f916286f
The notes on the first beat are clear enough, the intervals you give for the second beat seem different than what I read in the score. I probably just think you mean something different (melodic intervals).
See the attachment to see what I mean, and you'll be better able to set me straight.........
http://www.4shared.com/file/74279522/f7 ... d=f916286f
Yes that's what I'm getting to. Although there might be another way of doing it, where you look at each note not on the downbeat in relation to the pulse:strachs wrote:I also am not sure if I get what related intervals you are referring to. I get the Hidemith thing with one tone in an interval being the tonic, but when I read your description of which notes, I am confused.
The notes on the first beat are clear enough, the intervals you give for the second beat seem different than what I read in the score. I probably just think you mean something different (melodic intervals).
See the attachment to see what I mean, and you'll be better able to set me straight.........
http://www.4shared.com/file/74279522/f7 ... d=f916286f
So D:
A-D P4 (tonic: D)
D-F# M3 (tonic: D)
But then it gets confusing with the C#
A-C# (tonic: A?)
C#-E (tonic: E?)
"Life finds a way"- Wayne Shorter
I started to transcribe that Bird solo, but got tired and ran out of time. Here's what I got so far....
http://www.4shared.com/file/74330660/3c ... d=f916286f
After doing this I am starting to see what you mean about the similarities between this and the Mozart example. I guess it's the term "folding back on itself" that kind of lost me, but there are definitely similar devices being employed here.
For one, the descending scalar phrase, which appears over several different chords (almost as if he's ignoring which chords are going on, but of course he's not, because the same phrase has an equally beautiful but different color on whichever chord he plays it on - I'm sure this is intentional).
For another, placing the same material over different beats. Mozart uses alternating chords over a 3-beat meter, so the downbeat emphasizes a different chord in the second measure than it did in the first one. Parker achieves such fluidity by playing the same phrase fragments over different beats.
The "hearing absolute" thing is a cool concept. I think it's similar to what Glenn Gould once wrote about Bach's keyboard music - that much of what is being communicated through the music must be felt in your fingers as you play it - much of it sounds very flat when just listening to a recording of it - but under the fingers, much of the sense of the music comes across much more clearly.
To tell you the truth, when I first heard your posted clip of the sax solo, I thought "big deal". But in order to transcribe it, you must process it more deeply, and the genius and beauty just jump out at you. Harmonic colors and metric feelings that were lost on my ears at full speed, became noticeable when I slowed the music down. Maybe that's why the jazz I enjoy tends to be the slower stuff... my ears just aren't sharp enough to pick up what's going on at those virtuoso speeds. But it's all in there, just the same.
http://www.4shared.com/file/74330660/3c ... d=f916286f
After doing this I am starting to see what you mean about the similarities between this and the Mozart example. I guess it's the term "folding back on itself" that kind of lost me, but there are definitely similar devices being employed here.
For one, the descending scalar phrase, which appears over several different chords (almost as if he's ignoring which chords are going on, but of course he's not, because the same phrase has an equally beautiful but different color on whichever chord he plays it on - I'm sure this is intentional).
For another, placing the same material over different beats. Mozart uses alternating chords over a 3-beat meter, so the downbeat emphasizes a different chord in the second measure than it did in the first one. Parker achieves such fluidity by playing the same phrase fragments over different beats.
The "hearing absolute" thing is a cool concept. I think it's similar to what Glenn Gould once wrote about Bach's keyboard music - that much of what is being communicated through the music must be felt in your fingers as you play it - much of it sounds very flat when just listening to a recording of it - but under the fingers, much of the sense of the music comes across much more clearly.
To tell you the truth, when I first heard your posted clip of the sax solo, I thought "big deal". But in order to transcribe it, you must process it more deeply, and the genius and beauty just jump out at you. Harmonic colors and metric feelings that were lost on my ears at full speed, became noticeable when I slowed the music down. Maybe that's why the jazz I enjoy tends to be the slower stuff... my ears just aren't sharp enough to pick up what's going on at those virtuoso speeds. But it's all in there, just the same.
If I am getting this right (and I have a lot to learn about ideas like this) this is a similar tool that's used when using Shearing block chords, because at first glance it seems only to go up and down the scale, but looking at it deeper, there's a lot more movement and leading notes than you realize.
Another way to look describe it is like a mobius strip, like with the Mozart example, it could seem like there two seperate sides, D and C#, but you look at it closer and the two 'sides' are really one, because one 'side' ends right where the other 'side' begins, etc.
Another way to look describe it is like a mobius strip, like with the Mozart example, it could seem like there two seperate sides, D and C#, but you look at it closer and the two 'sides' are really one, because one 'side' ends right where the other 'side' begins, etc.
"Life finds a way"- Wayne Shorter
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sandywilliams
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:17 pm
That looks like a useful program. I've been using the Amazing Slow Downer (ronimusic.com) which does similar stuff.
One really neat trick that most people don't know is that you can slow down video in Quicktime. Go to 'Window' then 'Show AV controls' and at the bottom right you have the option to slow video down to 1/2 speed. This has helped me figure out several things.
One really neat trick that most people don't know is that you can slow down video in Quicktime. Go to 'Window' then 'Show AV controls' and at the bottom right you have the option to slow video down to 1/2 speed. This has helped me figure out several things.
I am using a wave editor from NCH.
http://www.nch.com.au/index.html
They have all kinds of useful audio tools.
(If I was pretending to be a 'real' musician, my lack of MAC would be a dead giveaway)
http://www.nch.com.au/index.html
They have all kinds of useful audio tools.
(If I was pretending to be a 'real' musician, my lack of MAC would be a dead giveaway)
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bobappleton
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:57 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
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